Friday, June 09, 2006

Frugalities

"Hi there! Please excuse my intrusiveness, but could you please share with me how you and your hubby bring in enough income to raise such a large family? I ask because I am a newly wed and we are hoping for a family...but I have been wondering how people handle it all financially."

That was posted in the comments to a previous post. I don't mind the question at all! This is something I've talked about frequently here, but not much of late, and I never mind revisiting it. We have never made 'enough income,' by most standards, but we have almost always lived within our means- and that is what makes all the difference.

It can be a hard question to answer with any level of specificity though, because what works in one part of the country won't work in another, and what suits us as a family won't suit somebody else. It might help if I knew what you are spending money on now. What I wear and being able to host fancy entertainment has never mattered to my husband's career, for example, but I know that these are vitally important expenses in families where the breadwinner is in a different line of work. I did things when I was younger that I couldn't do so well now (like eating a baked potato for lunch every day because we couldn't afford anything else- that would make me physically ill to do it today). We have usually lived near a good thrift shop, but I know some people really don't. So the details will vary.

So you see, the most important frugal tool you can have is not the income you bring in, but the way you think about what you need and what you want- your own mindset and attitude. A sense of entitlement does more harm to the family budget than just about anything else I can think of. Often we don't realize just how entitled we feel. Years and years ago I remember a young friend telling me they had finally just decided to run their air conditioner, even though we lived in Japan and the cost of running the AC added hundreds of dollars to the utilities bill and none of us could afford it. She told me that she had just decided that they "shouldn't have to live this way." Well, why not? Living within ones' means is the way all of us should have to live, and if that means we are sweaty and uncomfortable or cold and shivery, oh, well. Not that I like it. It's just a reality.

It's vital to rethink what you truly, really need. I have a basic 'need' test. If no family living anywhere in the world at any time could get by without whatever that item is- it's a need. If other families have managed to get along without it for centuries and in other places, it's not a need. It's a want. Now, it may be an important, worthy, even admirable 'want,' but if we won't starve, get very sick, be thought insane, or lose our source of income without it, then it's not a need.

Transportation rates as a need, because we need it for our source of income. But what sort of transportation do we really need? For our first 16 months of marriage our main transportation was a borrowed mo-ped for my husband and my feet for me. Somebody gave us a ride to church, sometimes I was able to borrow my parents car to do the grocery shopping (other times I walked), and after we moved away from my folks, sometimes I called a cab. We live much further from town now and we no longer live in California, so a mo-ped is not practical or very safe for the HM. He needs a vehicle. But do do we need a pretty new car, or is the one with peeling paint and a broken seat that only stays up when you prop up an old tire behind it good enough for the HM to drive to work?

Learn to get by with less, make do, or do without. Learn to cook from scratch. Hamburger HElper is not cheap and it is not from scratch. Learn to buy used clothes and to mend the ones you have. Shop at thrift shops, garage sales, and consignment stores. Drive a used, a very used, car, and get by with one or none if you can. Don't go the credit card route. Buy only what you can pay for.

Reconsider what you need for housing. We are living in a decadently wonderful house now, but we spent nearly three years in 1200 square feet with no AC and precious little heat and only one bathroom. Being retired military we moved a lot, and our housing situation has fluctuated over the years. We've had 2000 square feet and 1400 square feet. We've had windows where the curtains billowed in the breeze when the windows were closed. We have had four children in one bedroom, and we have had two children in our bedroom for a few months when somebody else lived with us. We have lived in neighborhoods that other people did not consider 'safe,' and we have lived in housing other people considered substandard. What mattered is that we were together and we were not in debt. We trust to God to keep us save more than we trust to the neighborhood.

What can you do without? I haven't had a professional haircut in more years than I can remember (twelve? Maybe longer). Over the last 20 years I have worn makeup perhaps twice a year (mostly because I am allergic to most of it, but still, it does save us money). I wear the same pair of shoes for years. We don't have television and have never paid for cable. We have gone without life insurance before, and we have foregone renter's insurance frequently. We have eaten buckets of beans and rice and rice and beans. We didn't see a movie in a theater for years, and we didn't ever rent movies until just a couple years ago, preferring our library because it was free. Please understand that there is nothing more spiritual or righteous about doing without these things. I am not even necessarily recommending each of these things, I am just offering them as food for thought to help prime your own pump about what is important to you and what isn't.

I have spent a lot of money on books and board games, because they matter to me. We have purchased memberships to museums and zoos, where other people would go without. We have high speed internet service because we use the internet for school, business, and recreational purposes and we have several people who like to be on at the same time. Others may differ. There is nothing holier about going without a haircut- it's just cheaper and that's one place I chose to save money. Somebody else might do the haircuts and skip the book binges or settle for internet connections at the library. My husband can't wear the same pair of shoes for more than a few months, he's too hard on them and his feet are a funny shape, so I wear my shoes forever, and he gets two new pairs a year because if he didn't, he'd have to go barefoot and this is frowned on by grocery store customers. So how to live within your means will vary with the individual.

Previous posts on the topic: The 'new' quilt: Frugality is a state of mind- look at what you have on hand in a new way.

Frugal Emergency Preparations: The tips and recipes in these posts can be used to help save money in every day cooking and living, too.

Frugalities and Potatoes

Frugal Baby Supplies

Frugal Baby

Frugal Presents

Being Poor- a series we did on how poor we used to be and why. I especially like this one.

Frugal Winterizing

Frugal savings at the grocery store- how to make 'hamburger helper' from scratch and more.

Here's another round-up of a few of our frugalities posts.

Specific details on 'use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.'

Home-made laundry soap

What Do I Have In My Hand?

The Gift of Space

Calculating the 'Wow' Factor.

If any of our readers have a favorite post that I don't mention here, or a link to another good article or helpful blog on the topic, please let us know in the comments, and I'll add them.

15 comments:

Dana said...

Thanks for your insights into this. We do not have a large family but did make a commitment to not go into debt (except for our house...but our mortgage is less than the rent we used to pay). It is strange what many people think are needs...entitlements because so many others have them. Many of whom also struggle to make ends meet.

I keep reminding myself that if I really want my children to value work and effort and the fruit of their labors, things cannot come so easily to them. They have to learn to work for things. We have a much higher income than we used to, but we committed to living as if we were still on my teacher's salary...it is too easy to spoil your children with all that seems good and educational for them.

Maybe that is just my area of weakness. If I get birthday money, I am more likely to spend it on my children than myself. Sometimes, saving is as much about realizing where your money really goes and finding cheaper alternatives for the same things. We used to eat out a lot, so we decided to plan one really nice meal at home per week. That helped some. But then we realized most of why we ate out so much was that we would, due to uncontrollable circumstances, get stuck in town. And eventually, you will feed your children, no matter what commitment you've made to not eating out. So we started packing everyone a sandwich a piece of fruit for those trips and have saved a lot.

Stephanie said...

Hi, may I add a few more tips? I guess I'm going to anyway, but feel free to disagree or disregard, of course. I don't touch much on frugal as I think you (DHM) have touched very well on that already. My tips are on saving for the future (and some major DO NOTs.)

Newly married...if you are both working, learn to live off of one income if you want to stay home. Save ALL or a good 80-90% of the second income. This has been invaluable to us. Get to a point that you don't depend on both incomes (if you are both working). I know people who made over $100K a year together, then had a baby and she couldn't stop working (she had planned to) because they had boats, toys and bills that had them strapped living month to month.

Save at least 10% of the primary income a month as well. If you can't do it now, work up to it. We saved all of mine and some of his, and are now still saving about 25% of his.

I work two days a week as a reservist (will be cutting waaay back after child #2 is born), and have found we are investing most of my paycheck again, on top of paying for childcare. Whatever is left over is to pay for extras (usually plane tickets). We never plan with my paycheck in mind.

We also decided that his current paycheck is the the lifestyle we want to maintain (unless we hit a rocky time, then we make sure we never have commitments we can't meet if every plan we have made goes south...with the exception of a house. If that happened, we will implement ALL of the frugal ways our parents taught us and SELL to get something we CAN afford.) Even with pay raises and promotions, we decided we want to keep living our current spending lifestyle.

Put the money (when you have enough) into a money market or some other higher interest account.

Saving is one thing. Investing is the flipside of that same coin. Once you have enough saved aside for a worst case scenario (what you need to live/meet your obligations for a month times 3 is a general rule of thumb...some people say paycheck times 3, but that assumes few or no debts.) Also, once you start investing (beyond savings accounts), make sure you do your research if you go with a broker (talk to people who know what to look for in a reputable one), or make sure you plan/make decisions based on long term goals as well as short term ones if you do it yourself. Don't flux with the market. And DIVERSIFY.

Get rid of debt. We have debt on our house and that's it. We bought a new car last year (DH is a rebate and shopping research genius, so he was able to find four rebates and get a decent price) and two month later paid for it in full. Both of our original cars got 35 to the gallon and were over 10 years old.

Beware of negative equity and living off of credit cards. I have friends (married couple) who bought a bigger car to accomodate more kids, and bought the tricked out model--at a discount!!! Right. Her brother the car salesman got her a "deal", which would have been mostly fine, but a few months later, due with baby #3, she lost her job (she was the primary breadwinner)...the car lost value and now they owe more on it than they can sell it for (negative equity.) Don't do this. Especially with a gas guzzler. They hurt themselves BAD, ran up huge credit card debt for living expenses in addition to $40K in school debt (and it's been 10 years since graduation), and ended up on welfare and seeing psychologists for depression.

Don't buy timeshares. Same friends did so aroudn the time they bought the car and were $7,000 in the hole when she lost her job. Unless you are financially stable through assets and investments, timeshares are a money sucker, and very, very difficult to sell.

Watch out for other scams. Be skeptical, even with trusted sources like banks or reputable brokers. Plan for the future as much as you can. My parents and my in laws started with absolutely nothing, worked their way up to peanuts, and are now comfortable and more for retirement. Both sets put kids through college (I know some people don't agree with this, but since those children were me and my DH, and we have put all of what we were taught and more into practice, I think our folks have seen a good dividend. You have to judge your kids when they get to be that age and be wise for them. Our plans could go crash and burn around us, but we have faith that God will allow us to rebuild. They are just things, and like with Job, He could allow them all to be taken away, but in the meantime, we try to plan and save as best we can to take care of the "talents" He has entrusted to us.)

By the way, I don't know what your beliefs are, but we also set aside a "God's Account" (it's all His money, but this is money we absolutely don't touch for ourselves.) An additional 10% of his paycheck goes into this account, and believe me, out of nowhere people with valid needs (um, but who are we to judge?) pray and God knocks us on the head to give out of the account. We give more than the account if necessary, but by having money set aside means we...well, can use His money as He wants us to. Not trying to pat us on the back (honestly)--we found we have learned a lot about money and attitudes, and have been very humbled through the use of this account. Been a bit painful to see ourselves (long story and this is long enough) through this lens, but it's been well worth it.

Never loan (maybe to kids), but if you do, never expect it back (in other words, don't consider it a loan.)

Believe God will take you through the tough money times (DH and I grew up seeing how much He could do with nothing), but plan. I'd rather be prepared and not have enough for the whole blow then not have anything at all to fall back on. As in, the hole is only three feet deep as opposed to six, if you get my drift.

I know I said this before, but eliminate debt!!! Save! Invest! Be frugal! That's it in a nutshell.

Sorry so long, and I really hope I don't come off like I'm bragging (many other people do better with their money than we do, my husband makes a modest income only and we don't have "toys"--not interested and too terrified of debt to buy them), and what works for us won't necessary work for others. However, I saw how much friends have suffered and I don't wish that on anyone. We have never fought about money in four years of marriage, and we are still living comfortably with me mostly at home (my paycheck is peanuts *grin*.) Of course, we are both in our thirties, so we have had time to establish ourselves, but the earlier you start saving the better. Good luck!!

jdavidb said...

Thank you for all of the information and encouragement you have provided on this subject over the past year or more. It has really, really helped us.

lady laura said...

Oh, dear DHM, I do so love it when you talk frugality. They are a good "check" for me when I find myself slipping into a feeling of deservedness.

Mama Squirrel said...

I'm working on a link to your post, DHM.

Headmistress, zookeeper said...

Dana- I, too am more likely to spend birthday money on something for the kids than me, and mostly because I like those toys myself.=)

Stephanie- those tips are awesome! Thanks for contributing. I may steal them for a future post!

David, I can't tell you how it warms my heart to know that something here has been beneficial to other families. That really makes my day.

Lady Laura, I confess that usually when I post a frugality post it's because *I* am feeling the need for a reminder.

jdavidb said...

DHM, you help us almost every day.

Oh, and earlier I was hunting up two posts about your son's slower than average (for your family) verbal development to encourage a mother in a similar situation...

Headmistress, zookeeper said...

didja find this one?
http://heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/2005/05/words-fitly-spoken.html

And this one?
http://heartkeepercommonroom.blogspot.com/2005/10/milestones.html

And Thomas Sowell wrote a wonderful book about those late talkers.

The Boy is still struggling with reading- sometimes it's a tearful thing, even, but I have decided not to worry until he's ten.

jdavidb said...

I had found milestones and they start young. I've shared the other one with her, now. :)

Mary Ann said...

Thank you for this post! We are fairly newly married(less than 2 years) and are still trying to find our way in the frugal/ living within your means area. So far, we have survived without any credit card purchases and are completely debt-free, and I am a stay-at-home wife. We do get a significant amount of pressure from family and friends to buy on credit(It's unrealistic to live totally debt-free, you know.:-) since we have had to do without some American luxuries in order to live debt-free. Anyways, I am finding too, that the real issue is how we look at what we need or want. I liked this post and will be back to read some of your other posts on frugality. (I came here via Like Merchant's Ships.)

Jen said...

Hi Dana -

About getting stuck away from home at dinnertime - I solved this problem with an "emergency kit" in my car. It's a box with:
- bulk-purchased luna bars
- bulk-purchased bottled water
- asprin
- allergy pills
- sunblock
- sun hat
- bandaids & larger bandages
- neosporin
- baby wipes
- feminine supplies
- polar fleece jacket
- polar fleece blanket
- my last-prescription glasses (they're close enough to the current prescription to let me pass the DMV eye exam)

Naturally this is organized for my family's needs. I certainly agree that sandwiches or fruit are cheaper than luna bars. I use the lunas due to their shelf life. Still, I know I've saved $$ by grabbing a snack (or more often, a drink) from the trunk instead of buying something. I also get fewer sunburns now that I have supplies readily available!

Jen said...

Mary Ann -

Really, the only reason to buy something on credit would be to help build a credit record. The credit record would primarily be in preparation for buying a house or car over time, but it can also be useful if you live in an area where potential landlords or employers check your credit rating.

If you are with a credit union you can probably get a credit card from them. If there are things you tend to order online, using a credit (not debit) card means that a typo on the vendors' part won't suck money out of your checking account!

Keep in mind, this does not mean you have to pay interest. Check the fine print. You should have a month's "grace" before interest kicks in. This means you should be able to charge $20 on a mail-order website, receive the goods, pay the $20 credit card bill, and not pay interest.

All that said, credit cards can be bad news if you figure you'll pay for it "later"....

Janice (5 Minutes for Mom) said...

Wow - that was a great post - so inspiring. I have MUCH to learn on this subject! I spend too much. Thanks for the great lessons.

Stephanie said...

The is the first time I have read your post. Found it via http://www.frugalupstate.blogspot.com/
I so agree with you about wants/vs needs. I will be back!

Calamity Jane said...

Headmistress -

I love this blog! It feeds my soul. Your reminder that there's nothing spiritually superior about specific modes of thrift, and the post on sloth in housework lit up the afternoon - thank you for speaking the truth so carefully.

A note on slow readers - my brother, who comes from a family of early-reading bookworms, didn't really read until he was eleven or so, and not fluently until sometime after he turned fourteen. He's literate - he's a graphic designer, reads novels and the paper, though more slowly than the rest of the family, and he's happy. We're just glad he was home educated, so he never got labeled with a learning disorder.